People who Do Not Teach, Telling Teachers How to Do it Right

A new article in The New York Times magazine features an Educational Professional - who has a sure way to get teachers to teach in the best possible way.  Like many who do this for a living, they either taught for a very short time (less than 10 years)  or never taught in a non-higher-education classroom at all.  How do you feel about getting advice (or worse) from those who couldn't cut it (this is the most opinionated discussion topic that I've ever posted - mea culpa) in the classroom?  Let us know what you think.

Comments

StephenieMeyers's picture

As a student...

Well with me being an Honors British Literature student, maybe you guys would like my input on this topic. As a student, understanding is everything. If I don't understand what you are trying to teach me, then I will just be confused and it will be a mess. Teachers who know how to teach become involved with the class. They don't just give you a piece of paper with a million things to do on it without explanation of how to do it correctly. Also, a good teacher will let the students figure out problems on their own as a class and not just give away the answers. Because if a teacher just gives us answers, we are not learning how to find information on our own. A good teacher will point out important keys to a lesson, but let us figure out why they are important. But don't just kick back and relax while we have a discussion. Teachers, give us some guidance :).

-imAclass2014Dolphin

McCallin's picture

Knowledge must be combined with experience for effective results

One of the best teachers I had in college did not have a doctorate, but she had taught in a classroom for 30 years. The other professors in my teacher education program were certainly excellent, but this woman differentiated herself by giving more practical advice than inflated theory.

As for people who are entirely outside of the education field, one of my colleagues had a very apt metaphor for relating the situation of politicians dictating how we should teach. A politician saying that he/she is qualified to make wide-sweeping educational reform because he/she went to school is like another person saying that because one eats and enjoys food, one is qualified to be on a farm board and make decisions regarding agricultural policy and practice.

Observations vs Rants

I have no problem reading ideas from people who aren't themselves in the classroom--I pick up ideas where I can get them.  There IS a difference between ideas and observations and absolute rants.  My brother-in-law has recently started weekly sessions in which he angrily criticizes teachers who don't follow the rules or teach in stupid ways or just don't know what they're doing.  He always ends with "There are plenty of teachers without jobs who could do it better."  I don't have a problem with admitting that there are issues in the classroom; no teacher is perfect.  I do have a problem with hearing stories secondhand and deciding that the entire field of teachers should be fired the first time they make a mistake.  Teaching is complicated.  I don't think I've ended a day in my 10 years of teaching when I didn't regret something, whether it's an offhanded comment, the design of a lesson, or a moment of flubbed classroom management.  I just try to make those regrets as reflective as possible and use them to feed into improvement.  For someone who has no connection to the profession except for a student teaching experience 15 years ago (he's now an attorney) and a daughter in second grade is just ridiculous.  Sadly, I think the opinions of a lot of people are shaped by rants like his.  (Sorry, this turned into my own rant!)

Jen

Singleyr's picture

Knowing versus Doing

Our district, a few years ago, hired a "talking head", for lack of a better word who has good ideas, but lacks the ability to relate them to his audience - namely teachers. I think this is greatly due to the fact that he has never actually had his own group of kids.  Instead, he has done "demonstration lessons" (although he, interestingly enough makes a point of saying that he doesn't do "demonstration lessons like the 'other' presenters" our district has brought in (all of which are actively practicing teachers). Interestingly enough, he never really brings any of his work to closure, instead he practices the "pigeon principle" - he flies in, "poops" on what we do, then flies away without leaving anything truly of use.  The most unfortunate bit of all is that his message is actually really good and makes complete pedagogic sense, but, because he isn't "one of us", the message is lost. It's akin to the difference in being an art critic and being an artist.

jorose's picture

People Who Do Not Teach, Telling Others How to do it

     Observing a classroom from the back of the room, or outside the window, or down the street is not getting a clear picture of anything. Unless a person has walked in my shoes up and down the rows, listened to my kids, looked at all of my required paper work, planned and executed my lessons,  that person has no business telling me how I should approach the task of teaching. Teaching is not merely standing up and delivering instruction to sponges. Teaching is engaging minds and hearts and shaping brains who will form the future destiny of our world.

     I will take direction from someone who is wiser than I, but it is ludicrious to take direction from someone who is less qualified that I am. The longer that a person has been out of the classroom, even a principal, the less the individual usually remembers about the current classroom reality. Today's kids have been molded by society. They are not anything like the kids of 20 years ago, 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago. Their brains have been hardwired by TV, commercials, video games, little parental reading time, and few family dinners. Creating ways to overcome societal deficits and family obstacles requires more than a bandaid and a bright businessman. Let educators and parents work together to improve education so that our kids become better family members and citizens.

Exactly!!!

Yes!!

You're right!

Only teachers working with passion and families helping their children and working together with the school can improve the current education!!!!!!!!

crimsoncat's picture

TOSAs

Our school district has TOSAs (Teachers on Special Assignment) who are supposed to go into schools on in-service days to provide additional content and teaching strategies. What I have found is that they seldom have more than a couple of years of teaching experience, and that the strategies they had developed were usually for class sizes almost half of what I am used to teaching. So I don't have much patience with "experts." We do need to have other input, but when a person is mostly interested in making money off of my profession, without being part of the profession, I get disgusted.

kristin

ltiernan's picture

On language and what it means

I couldn't help laughing at this! I am Australian and one of our words for people who annoy us because they don't know what they are talking about is 'tossers'!

something similar

there is a group of "experts" in my country called Technicians. they hold government posts and they are supposed to work on things related to teaching strategies, establishing the most proper curriculum and things like that.

the problem is that they do not perform their task so well and it is common to hear complaints from headteachers and people who actually know how to do it right... and these experts' wages are twice or three times higher than ours...

sometimes I want to become an "expert"... but I have to go on working on my post... a classroom full of teenagers, trying to put into practice what experience has taught me all this time... and I eventually find that, without a post like theirs, I am as expert as they, because I am in charge of doing the best out of the worst...

scotese's picture

good instincts

Sounds like you made a wise decision.  I have had a few opportunities to leave the classroom - but am so glad I stuck around - the classroom, to me, is where everything interesting happens. 

gypsywannabe's picture

So I bought the book

Because I trust my instincts . . . if a tool or a strategy in Lemov's book sounds good, I can test it myself in the classroom.  As others have commented, I don't trust expert opinion but I do trust teacher experience.  So I tried a strategy he recommends, and it's so simple I blush to say I needed to be told:  stand in one place when giving directions.  That's it, that's the strategy.  Stand still.  Otherwise, he argues, students don't realize that teacher direction outranks following the teacher with their eyes or looking at the board. 

So I tried standing still in the front center and saying clearly "Please take out X" which usually has to be repeated because I am saying it on the move & they're not focused.  It worked.  They did it at once, at the same time, the first time I said it.  I simply didn't do anything else when I gave the direction. 

I know this is not rocket science, this technique.  I offer it here BECAUSE it is low-tech (the book offers many more sophisticated strategies) and because I needed to be told to stand still!  I was convinced by Lemov's research only that I ought to give the strategies a try and see for myself.  I will do that with each of the 49 others.

I just wish someone had told me earlier that I should stand still once in a while!

Susan Phalen

Lisa_D's picture

such a simple thing

That makes so much sense - standing still.  I think that, knowing myself, I am probably on the move quite a bit.  I've never really stopped to think about it.  (I like low-tech suggestions!)

It's essential to have

It's essential to have multiple viewpoints to allow for progress.  The point of contention, however, seems to arise when an individual with little knowledge or experience in education makes steadfast claims on what happens in the classroom.  It is frustrating when people who have never stepped foot in a classroom decide what is best for the classroom.  Collaboration, understaning, and communication are essential to education but seem to be sidenotes in the educational "industry."

scotese's picture

Multiple Viewpoints

I agree with you.  And I also agree with your contention - it is very discouraging when those who don't teach are given the same or more creedance than those who do teach.

mmayo's picture

What's he selling?

Those who can, teach.  Those who can't teach, teach the teachers.

I have absolutely no problem with someone conducting research on an artform and presenting that research.  The critical essays I read on literature are not usually written by poets, playwrights, or authors.  If all Lemnov has done is study "successful" teachers and distill what he found to 49 successful techniques and presented them in a book, I really have no problem.  If he is facilitating a way for teachers to see other teachers work, than he is doing good work.

Unfortunately, I think the only people in education with pure motives are teachers.  All of Lemnov's master teachers work at his schools.  He attended Harvard Business School -- he's running a business.  His book, it's write up in the NY Times Magazine, and his interviews on NPR are as much about his research as they are about promoting his schools and the charter school movement. 

I do have a problem with that.

gypsywannabe's picture

If a tool works, does it matter who invented or distributed it?

I read the recent article on Lemov with interest and excitement, then Googled Lemov's taxonomy and watched a few videos of the techniques he identified being used by classroom teachers.  I have pre-ordered the book of techniques, which is due out in April.

I have only been in this field seven years, and I remember vividly how very inadequate my pedagogy courses seemed when I first entered the classroom.  I had not been taught how to plan, how to think through to the outcomes I wanted, nor had I been given concrete techniques for classroom instruction or management.  I was told that classroom management would not be a problem if my lessons were creative and engaging enough.  As I found out, that was a disingenuous dodging of the program's responsibility to equip me with the tools I needed to succeed.  I had some tools of my own, and learned quickly, but my first few years still felt like being thrown into the deep end of the pool without the benefit of swimming lessons.

I still search out tools for my teacher toolkit, and I collect them from my colleagues, from the English Companion ning, from this rich site, and from articles like the one in the New York Times Magazine.  If our own professional training programs are not giving us what we need--and mine did not--I am not looking any gift horses in the mouth when they trot into my awareness!  I want to beware of my tendency to reject whatever is Not Invented Here by folks who are Not Like Us.  If their goals are mine, I will give their tools every chance to improve my practice. 

The article asserted (1) that there are no easy answers in public education and (2) that teachers are THE most important variable.  We are powerful, to the benefit or detriment of our students.  If I am to grow as a teacher, I must myself be teachable.  That implies humility and openness. 

Susan Phalen

scotese's picture

I love your openness

I love you openness -  I think the most important quality that a teacher can have is the capacity for growth - and that is written all over you.  I hope that the book and videos are great and you are absolutely right - if they work, that's all that matters.  On the other hand, if someone, Lemov, was such a great teacher - than why did he leave teaching - this is the part of the equation that I can never understand.  I someone is a great heart surgeon, would they leave the operating table after only a few years to show (without actually doing it) other surgeons how to operate?  In the end, though, I think you are right - if it works that part of the equation is not so important - just perhaps a bit troubling to some of us.

healigan's picture

Advice from those who never taught at all...

I certainly am interested in hearing what teachers have to say--whether they teach now or year ago. One of my colleagues, probably the best teacher I have ever seen, is 82. Really. She uses tech as required, but her preferred methods are old school. Her classes are always filled, even the electives, and kids fight to get into her AP class. I listen to everything she says about teaching, even though our styles are extremely different.  People who have never taught are not even in the same category. Would I Iisten to them? Of course; they have much to offer. But considering that it seems that most of the world thinks they can do our job better, more quickly and more cheaply than we can, I would not listen to them re: methods. As a high school teacher, most of my interaction with non-teachers is with parents, and they speak from anxiety or impatience, often with their child.

I'm stopping now. I love teaching and I love my students. But the bile rises in my throat when I count all the times someone unconnected to the education process explains it to me and provides me with the answer to MY problems. And then they tell me that it is an easy job because I do nothing all summer.

scotese's picture

Education and those who don't educate

I remember watching some educational panel deliberating on TV and I was amazed that out of a panel of 10-12 people, there was not a single secondary or elementary teacher, though that was the subject of their inquiry.  It is inconvceivable to me that they would have a panel on medincine without having a doctor - how could they have a panel on education without having a (non higher education) teacher?

Lisa_D's picture

More a response to the article than the question ...

I would be wary of advice from those who have not taught in a classroom setting (particulary someone who also touts him/herself as an "educational professional").  Lemov apparently had " ... a successful career as a teacher, a principal and a charter-school founder" prior to moving into educational consulting, so he does not really fit the profile stated in this topic.  While this gives him a more equity to speak into classroom "techniques" (why do I dislike that word ... ?), who decided that he was successful as a teacher himself?  This is one of many instances of circular reasoning (or, at least, unsupported statements) in the article.  Here is another:  "William Sanders, a statistician studying Tennessee teachers with a colleague, found that a student with a weak teacher for three straight years would score, on average, 50 percentile points behind a similar student with a strong teacher for those years."  What data determined which teachers were weak and which were strong?  The scores?  Circular reasoning, if so.

I'm rather off-topic here, but I think the point I'm making is ... although there could be valuable insights to be gain from observations such as Lemov's, the attempt to quantify, based on statistics, the "49 most successful techniques to this ..." or the "19 best norms for that ... " can be limiting, at best, and misguiding or unfair, at worst.

This part bothered me (emphasis mine):  "When Doug Lemov conducted his own search for those magical ingredients, he noticed something about most successful teachers that he hadn’t expected to find: what looked like natural-born genius was often deliberate technique in disguise. “Stand still when you’re giving directions,” a teacher at a Boston school told him. In other words, don’t do two things at once. Lemov tried it, and suddenly, he had to ask students to take out their homework only once.  It was the tiniest decision, but what was teaching if not a series of bite-size moves just like that?"

Ummm ... no ... teaching is not a series of bite-size moves.  What if natural-born genius just looks like (or produces) deliberate technique?  I don't think we can reduce "successful teaching" to a series of executable processes.  I had a high school teacher who commanded attention by his dramatic way of moving.  Which is "correct"?

To be honest, I did find some of the observations in the article to be useful, for me at least.  But it is one thing to say "here are some things that other teachers have found to be effective" and quite another to imply that "these are the discrete elements that define or produce a successful teacher."

(I suppose I'd be happy to receive advice from anyone, if I found it to be helpful or useful.  But I have no need seek it from those who have little or no classroom experience when there are so many others who do and who are willing to mentor me.)

scotese's picture

successful carreers

I looked all over the article and could not find anything more on his "successful" career as a teacher than what you quoted.  How long did he teach?  How long ago was it?  These are key questions.   And there is an unspoken question that most teachers ask when reading this  kind of article - if he was so successful - why did he leave?  His actions belie his words.

Lisa_D's picture

yes

This is why I was wondering "who decided that he was successful as a teacher himself".  While I don't want to dismiss his sincerity or trivialize the effort he has made in his work, I think it is an important and reasonable  question given that this is the very thing that he is attempting to quantify.

In any case, I would not be averse to reading his book and would probably find that it contains some interesting and helpful ideas.  It does appear that his intent, or at least one of them, is to provide teachers with a useful resource.  What I am wary of is its potential use as a way to determine which teachers are successful and which are not, a process which, in my opinion, cannot be done using a checklist (no matter how comprehensive) of "moves".

MissGibbons87's picture

out of touch

What I have found, in my short teaching experience, is that these people are often touch with what a real classroom is like.

I once had a "teaching coach" who was out of the high school setting for over 40 years. At that point, she was well beyond out of touch, and even suggested that I teach certain lessons that have even been proven not to work in recent research.

Sometimes their advice is great, but I would take it all with a grain of salt.